Comments on: Busting the Myth of GPL Dominance: Apache Rules! http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/ Openlogic's Community Blog Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:44:00 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Agile Daily - Today’s Top Blog Posts on Agile Development - Powered by SocialRank http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78635 Agile Daily - Today’s Top Blog Posts on Agile Development - Powered by SocialRank Mon, 01 Oct 2007 09:06:34 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78635 [...] Busting the Myth of GPL Dominance: Apache Rules! | OpenLogic Blogs [...] [...] Busting the Myth of GPL Dominance: Apache Rules! | OpenLogic Blogs [...]

]]> By: Ramon Casha http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78623 Ramon Casha Mon, 01 Oct 2007 08:05:50 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78623 It's a big mistake to lump GPL and LGPL together as if they were essentially the same. As far as developers are concerned, LGPL is much closer to Apache than GPL. It’s a big mistake to lump GPL and LGPL together as if they were essentially the same. As far as developers are concerned, LGPL is much closer to Apache than GPL.

]]> By: Don Marti http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78569 Don Marti Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:01:06 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78569 Stormy, David searched 612 packages from Red Hat, and 55% of those were GPL. If you have 300 at 20% GPL, someone who installs all of everything will have about 44% GPL by package count. rittmey, you're right about the Java effect. Apache has a lot of popular Java projects, and until Java went GPL and Red Hat bought JBoss, Red Hat wasn't including them as part of its distribution. That created a niche for the "stack" companies to do for Java on the Java VM what Red Hat did for C on x86. Stormy, David searched 612 packages from Red Hat, and 55% of those were GPL. If you have 300 at 20% GPL, someone who installs all of everything will have about 44% GPL by package count.

rittmey, you’re right about the Java effect. Apache has a lot of popular Java projects, and until Java went GPL and Red Hat bought JBoss, Red Hat wasn’t including them as part of its distribution. That created a niche for the “stack” companies to do for Java on the Java VM what Red Hat did for C on x86.

]]> By: rittmey http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78483 rittmey Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:06:14 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78483 Well, I think there are some reasons for this - though not necessarily the ones give by you. The reason one given by you (preference for ASL over GPL) ist not convincing. If so, there should also be a preference for the BSD-license over GPL because it is as permissive as the ASL. I think reason three (better software - I would prefer the wording very good, though not generally better software) is pretty much valid. Apache has a very rigorous process before projects can become Apache projects. They must already have a viable community and developer base. There is no such limitation on Sourceforge/savannah.org/berlios.de or most other project aggregating sites. I think another issue is important. You just examined large enterprise customers. These tend to prefer Java over other languages for their projects. And Apache has some very important projects for Java developers. Struts (okay a bit dated, but still heavily in use in large enterprises), Tomcat (by far the most common Servlet container), MyFaces, Ant, Maven, Apache commons and many more. And every Java project I have seen in the last five years uses some (as in plural) Apache libraries. And of course the most used web server is Apache's httpd. So I am not that surprised about your findings. Well, I think there are some reasons for this – though not necessarily the ones give by you.

The reason one given by you (preference for ASL over GPL) ist not convincing. If so, there should also be a preference for the BSD-license over GPL because it is as permissive as the ASL.

I think reason three (better software – I would prefer the wording very good, though not generally better software) is pretty much valid. Apache has a very rigorous process before projects can become Apache projects. They must already have a viable community and developer base. There is no such limitation on Sourceforge/savannah.org/berlios.de or most other project aggregating sites.

I think another issue is important. You just examined large enterprise customers. These tend to prefer Java over other languages for their projects. And Apache has some very important projects for Java developers. Struts (okay a bit dated, but still heavily in use in large enterprises), Tomcat (by far the most common Servlet container), MyFaces, Ant, Maven, Apache commons and many more. And every Java project I have seen in the last five years uses some (as in plural) Apache libraries.

And of course the most used web server is Apache’s httpd. So I am not that surprised about your findings.

]]> By: Patrizio http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78475 Patrizio Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:49:36 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78475 Samba is missing, Linux Kernel is missing, what kind of customers do you have? -_- Samba is missing, Linux Kernel is missing, what kind of customers do you have?

-_-

]]> By: Ganesh Prasad http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78441 Ganesh Prasad Sat, 29 Sep 2007 03:06:25 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78441 Just wait a couple of years for corporate superstitious fears to wear off. The GPL will then be seen for what it is - the fairest license based on a win-win philosophy. The GPL is a pro-user license, but it's ironic if it's more popular today among developers than end-users. One can only conclude that when understanding deepens, it will attain its expected level of popularity among users. Just wait a couple of years for corporate superstitious fears to wear off. The GPL will then be seen for what it is – the fairest license based on a win-win philosophy. The GPL is a pro-user license, but it’s ironic if it’s more popular today among developers than end-users. One can only conclude that when understanding deepens, it will attain its expected level of popularity among users.

]]> By: Stormy http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78415 Stormy Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:30:33 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78415 Don, you are correct that we typically don't support things that are part of the distribution already (since customers have another support path for those) but I don't think that changes the Apache/GPL mixture. Don, you are correct that we typically don’t support things that are part of the distribution already (since customers have another support path for those) but I don’t think that changes the Apache/GPL mixture.

]]> By: Don Marti http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78403 Don Marti Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:43:36 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78403 Back in 2002, <a href="http://www.dwheeler.com/sloc/redhat71-v1/redhat71sloc.html" rel="nofollow">David Wheeler pointed out</a> that about 50% of the software in the Red Hat distribution was under GPL. Since the OpenLogic list is by customer request, what if the customers are mostly requesting stuff that they don't already have preinstalled with their distributions? Back in 2002, David Wheeler pointed out that about 50% of the software in the Red Hat distribution was under GPL.

Since the OpenLogic list is by customer request, what if the customers are mostly requesting stuff that they don’t already have preinstalled with their distributions?

]]> By: A Year in the Life of a BSD Guru http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78401 A Year in the Life of a BSD Guru Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:56:25 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78401 <strong>Friday's Recommended Reading...</strong> What happens when you're too busy during the week to blog? You get a backlog of cool reading material....... Friday’s Recommended Reading…

What happens when you’re too busy during the week to blog? You get a backlog of cool reading material…….

]]> By: Dennis Byron http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-78395 Dennis Byron Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:10:56 +0000 http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2007/09/busting-the-myth-of-gpl-dominance-apache-rules/#comment-78395 I would like to suggest another possibility. I don't believe deployment decisions (for any type of software) are based on licensing terms and conditions very often. I think you are seeing the results of decisions made primarily because the enterprises needed products that just happen to be licensed under Apache. I have 30 years of research that says "Functionality rules!" Can your statistics break out the Apache licenses by "Apache product" type? My guess is that a high percentage are classic Apache web server software, but that's just a guess. Also--if anyone knows--do you get an Apache license when you get Websphere and Oracle AS and other such products with Apache web server built in? That would skew the numbers also. Dennis I would like to suggest another possibility. I don’t believe deployment decisions (for any type of software) are based on licensing terms and conditions very often. I think you are seeing the results of decisions made primarily because the enterprises needed products that just happen to be licensed under Apache. I have 30 years of research that says “Functionality rules!”

Can your statistics break out the Apache licenses by “Apache product” type? My guess is that a high percentage are classic Apache web server software, but that’s just a guess.

Also–if anyone knows–do you get an Apache license when you get Websphere and Oracle AS and other such products with Apache web server built in? That would skew the numbers also.

Dennis

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